Elected Democratic leader of the US House of Representatives in 2022, Hakeem Jeffries ’97 has played a pivotal role in a turbulent era in Congress, forging unexpected consensus amid stark divisions. Earlier this year, he joined Dean Troy McKenzie ’00 to reflect on history, resilience, and meeting the current moment.
Troy McKenzie: Thank you for being here today. I want to begin with an opening question about you and the career you’ve pursued. Why enter political life?
Hakeem Jeffries: You know, I think when I went to law school, I knew that I wanted to get a law degree and then use that degree to make a difference in the communities that I came from in central Brooklyn and possibly beyond. A few years after law school, when I was living in central Brooklyn, I just started getting involved in some local civic organizations, as well as starting a project called Brooklyn Counts, a Census 2000 participation effort. And one thing led to another. Connected to that initiative, I wound up running for local office against an assemblyman who had been in office for 20 years. I didn’t win that race, but it laid a foundation. And ultimately a few years after that, I was successful.
McKenzie: So can I ask you about losing? You spoke at Convocation when you graduated in 1997, and your Convocation speech to your classmates and their families talked about putting winning and losing, success and failure, in perspective. Tell me a little bit about the perspective that you have now that you have had this amazing career. But you haven’t had a career where you’ve been able to say, “Gosh, I’ve never suffered a loss. I’ve never had a challenge.”
Jeffries: Adversity is a natural part of one’s journey in life, and confronting that adversity, and being able to fight through it, I think, is incredibly important in whatever field of human endeavor one ultimately engages in.
When I ran for office the first time, I ran against a 20-year incumbent. Lost. Did well. Came closer than anyone had ever done in those 20 years that he had been in office—but lost, got knocked on the ground. Came back two years later. Ran again. Lost again. Now I've lost twice. And it was really at that moment when I began to process that you’re gonna confront these obstacles and that a lot of people who have reached the heights of professional success in many different areas—whether that’s business, in sports, or civic life—across the board they have encountered what one might conventionally call failure before they encountered their success.
I think it was Churchill who made the observation, paraphrasing him, that success is not final, failure is not fatal. All that matters at the end of the day is the courage to continue. And you know, I followed that path. That you can get knocked down, but a knockdown is different from a knockout.
You start to look around at other people, and you realize that a lot of presidents, for instance, have lost their first congressional races. As an example, George W. Bush lost his first congressional race. Bill Clinton lost his first congressional race. Turns out Barack Obama lost his first congressional race by something like 24 points, which is kind of extraordinary, because these are considerable political talents. You can have all the talent and ability and capacity in the world. Other things have to line up.
So I’ve come to the conclusion for public service–minded young people, I say to them: perseverance is the most important quality that you can have. You just need to persevere through the challenges. And once you get there, hopefully your talent, your ability, your work ethic, all these other qualities will take over. But you’ve got to be able to persevere through the adversity in order to get there.
McKenzie: Now, I wanted to ask you a little bit about the country and the place that you’re in, that we are all in. At the start of this Congress, you talked about this Congress being at a crossroads. Tell me a little bit about what you were thinking and where you see the country now as we head into an election cycle that seems like none other.
Jeffries: It certainly is an unprecedented moment. And there have been a series of events that have occurred, I think, since the 2016 election that should make clear to all of us that this is a fragile moment for our country, our values, our democracy. We are at a crossroads. And the question is not one of whether Democrats or Republicans will win. We have a robust two-party system. We can agree to disagree without being disagreeable. But the moment that we’re in right now is something very different, where it’s unclear that some people who are running for office or serving in office or trying to get back to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue actually believe in American democracy, believe in this principle of government of the people, by the people, and for the people, believe in free and fair elections. So all of these values, ideas, traditions, norms that I think many people thought were sacred in America appear no longer to be for a lot of folks. And so everything we care about is on the ballot in November.
McKenzie: One of the challenges to democracy, or one of the things that makes this moment challenging, is the role of technology, social media, artificial intelligence. The way we communicate with each other, the way we talk about issues, the information that goes around to voters, and the media more broadly are polluted, sometimes distorted. It’s far more complex. Have you thought at all about how to confront a moment where information is shared and distributed in a way that leads to these types of distortions and complexities?
Jeffries: Well, Congress is going to have to legislate in this area, but we need to do it in a thoughtful, forward-looking, bipartisan, and eventually comprehensive manner. So Speaker Mike Johnson and I announced the formation of a bipartisan task force on artificial intelligence, designed to do two things: make sure that the United States of America can continue to lead in the development of this groundbreaking, transformational technology, but also that there are guardrails that are thoughtfully put into place so that bad actors who may seek to exploit the technology, to do harm to others, are not able to be successful.
We know that there are forces of authoritarianism, of tyranny, of totalitarianism who don’t share our values, who may try to exploit any new technology to try to undermine American society, divide us, and undermine democracies across the world. For these bad actors, online is the new front line because they can exploit online vulnerabilities through social media, through the internet, and now potentially through artificial intelligence to try to undermine American society and defeat us in ways that they couldn’t otherwise.
McKenzie: Online as the new front line. That’s a scary message, but also an important one to hear. I want to step back into the law school experience. How do you think law school is different from when you graduated in the 1990s?
Jeffries: Well, I’m confident that it still remains a magical experience in the context of just being in a great institution like NYU Law, receiving a top-flight education and then having, you know, your whole life in front of you to go out and make your mark, make a difference, make your way in society. And that’s what law school represented for me and many others that have become lifelong friends, including people who came to NYU Law to try to make a difference, got a great education, and went on in different ways to serve in public office. I’m pretty confident that there are people at NYU Law today that are going to go on to make tremendous contributions as public servants, as judges, as philanthropists, as people who are heavily engaged in pro bono activity while simultaneously practicing law and/or in public interest law.
I do think that the challenges that we face today in America and throughout the world are more existential than what we were confronting in the mid to late ’90s when you and I were in school. And that has to have an impact, I would imagine—sort of a heaviness to it, related to the challenges that this generation of lawyers is going to be asked to confront as leaders. But by the same token, there have been obstacles that America has confronted for years, decades, and centuries, and a whole lot of folks, who didn’t have access to the resources, the technology, the opportunities that we had and this current generation of folks may have, just went on to change society and the world in such a phenomenal way. You think of the power of imagination that John Lewis had to have as a young boy from Alabama, in the heart of the Jim Crow South, to imagine a better America and then go about bringing that about. Or Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who grew up in Brooklyn in a community of Holocaust survivors in the immediate aftermath of that horrific crime against humanity, but she could imagine a better world, a better society for women, and for others, and then went out and worked to make that happen.
And so I’m hopeful that this current group of young people won’t lose that power of imagination, even in the midst of all the existential challenges that we confront, and can draw inspiration from the figures whose shoulders we all stand on, who were able to continue our march toward a more perfect union against all odds.
McKenzie: Tell me about some of the classes you remember. Do you think of particular classes that were influential when you were a student here?
Jeffries: The first year, my favorite class, perhaps of all time, was Civil Procedure with Professor [Rochelle] Dreyfuss. I mean, she’s such a brilliant professor, she was engaging. And who knew she could make civil procedure so interesting?
McKenzie: Now, now, now, I know someone who tries to make civil procedure interesting as well.
Jeffries: But it was incredible. I mean, I immediately gravitated to civil procedure. It was intellectually stimulating. And it was really an introduction to the law, unlike torts, where you have some vague familiarity with the theoretical underpinnings, or criminal justice—Professor [Paul] Chevigny, may he rest in peace, I had him and it was a very interesting class—but there was something about civil procedure [where I felt], “Hey, I’m actually in law school, you know, on my way to just learning a whole new skill set.”
McKenzie: A new language.
Jeffries: A new language. So that was incredible. And then I think, as a third-year, when I had the opportunity to be in the Juvenile Rights Clinic, that was great. Professors Randy Hertz, Kim Taylor-Thompson. [I] learned a lot about sort of the art and science of advocacy and how to really apply it in ways that are designed to make a difference for the people that you’re privileged to represent and for society in general.
McKenzie: You were a member of BALSA [Black Allied Law Students Association], I was a member of BALSA. For me, it was a transformative experience to be part of that group, and then later, to be in LACA [Law Alumni of Color Association] as an alum. Tell me about those experiences and how they affected you.
Jeffries:: BALSA was great. Because, you know, it was a family that you walked into. And you also realized that there were a group of Black lawyers who were once law students at the school and had a rich tradition. BALSA was founded by NYU Law students. That’s an incredible legacy.
What I found over the years is that, at NYU in particular, given that history, the cast of characters may change over the years— law students come and law students go—but the character of the cast remains the same. It draws young African American students who are seeking community. That translates into the alumni network as well. And the academic support that was provided was significant. [As a 1L] I decided when I’m a second- or third-year, [the academic chair,] that’s what I want to be. And that’s what I was able to do, because it was so helpful to me in trying to be as successful as I could, that academic support, that I wanted to be able to pass that down to those who came after me.
McKenzie: I remember going into exams first semester and I was freaking out because that’s what you do as a 1L. The academic chair at the time said to me, “Well, let me see your practice exam answers,” and looked at it and said, “You’re okay. This is what you need to do to: tweak this, change that, you forgot about this.” It brought my temperature down about 10 degrees. I’ll never forget that. It was this sense that I could trust this person who was going to tell me the truth if I was in trouble, if I had an uphill climb, or if I just needed to work where I was to improve where I was. Made all the difference.
Jeffries: Without question. And then intramural football was a lot of fun. A lot of camaraderie. Disappointingly, you know, the football team, both years that I played on it, [was] undefeated until the championship game, and then we somehow lost the championship both times. And in basketball, I think we were undefeated and then lost like in the final four. So I’m still a little traumatized by that, but otherwise they are great memories.
McKenzie: I want to talk a little bit about hope and how to think about a challenging future, how to think through challenging times. How do you yourself stay hopeful? And how do you convey to your colleagues, now that you’re in a leadership position, and [to] those who are coming up behind you in a younger generation, how do you say, realistically, there are challenges, this is a difficult moment, but ultimately, remaining hopeful is crucial?
Jeffries: We were talking about how personally everybody in life encounters turbulence, trials, and tribulations. Well, that’s the same for a country and for society. And I think at the end of the day, the framers of the Constitution created a system of government that has proven to be resilient, though it wasn’t a perfect country by any stretch of the imagination upon our founding. There were institutions that needed to be dismantled—certainly slavery, chattel slavery, right at the top of that list. What [the founders] established was sort of a continuing march toward a more perfect union, this notion that, year after year, decade after decade, century after century, we would try to continuously become the best version of ourselves.
And that has steadfastly been the path that we’re on through, now, 248 years of our country’s existence. We have had to overcome a lot of adversity, but every time we’ve met the moment. Whether that was in the 1860s, in the midst of the Civil War, [when] the country was literally tearing itself apart. We confronted it to get to the other side. Or October 1929, when the stock market collapsed, unexpectedly plunging us into a Great Depression. Or December 7, 1941, when a foreign power unexpectedly struck, thousands of American servicemen and women lost their lives. It plunged us into a great war against the evil empire of Nazi Germany. Or the turbulent times in the Deep South where we were struggling to reconcile the inherent contradiction between Jim Crow segregation on the one hand,and the glorious promises of the Constitution on the other. Or right here in New York, when the towers were struck on September 11th, unexpectedly plunging us into a war on terror. Even in Washington on January 6th, when a violent mob of insurrectionists unexpectedly and temporarily took over the Capitol as part of an effort to halt the peaceful transfer of power.
Through all of these moments, the one constant is American resilience to get through the turbulence of the moment and make it to the other side. And so we can’t run away from the turbulent moment we’re in right now. We’re dealing with a lot of rough stuff. But we can draw upon the fact that American resilience has been a constant from the very beginning of our journey, and I’m confident that this generation can rise to the occasion, just like others have in the past.
McKenzie: Being a leader is challenging in any moment with any organization, but particularly given where you are—the challenges of Congress, leading a party—that’s a difficult thing to do. Do you have insights on leadership more broadly?
Jeffries: I think what I’ve learned in this context is listening matters. And I think some of the most powerful words that a leader can use in communicating with others are, “What do you think about this issue or that challenge or this? What do you think?” And when you ask that question, mean it, because everybody has some value to add to how you may go about solving a problem.
The other thing that I’ve realized—particularly during the extraordinary nature of what has happened during this 118th Congress. There were 15 different votes before the House could even constitute itself and elect a speaker. A few months after that, we narrowly avoided a catastrophic default on our debt for the first time in American history. And then we came back after the traditional August district work period and the former speaker unilaterally announces an impeachment inquiry against the president of the United States of America. At the end of September, we narrowly avoided a government shutdown. A few days after that, a successful motion to vacate is brought against the former speaker. We were without a speaker for two-and-a-half weeks. [During that time] the events of October 7 occurred, the largest loss of Jewish life in a single day since the Holocaust. And then there was the ongoing existential conflict between Ukraine and Russia, with Vladimir Putin essentially trying to reconstitute the Soviet Union. Then we narrowly avoided a government shutdown in November for the second time. Then a few weeks after that, George Santos is expelled, which rarely, if ever, occurs in a decade.
McKenzie: I was saying earlier that if screenwriters came up with this, no one would believe the script.
Jeffries: So I’m home over the holiday recess, and I had to ask the question: how did I get myself into this situation?
But what I realized through all of the difficulty, [these] unprecedented events, is that remaining calm is an intentional decision. You have to make the decision to be calm as all of these extraordinary events unfold. And when you do that, you can work on addressing the issue in a serious, sober, substantive fashion. And if you approach things in a serious, sober, substantive fashion, it will give you the greatest likelihood of making the right decision.
McKenzie: One piece of advice I’ve gotten from professional pilots is when something goes wrong, you hear an alarm go off— fly the plane. Stay calm and fly the plane. Anything else that you wanted to say that we haven’t covered?
Jeffries: Well, I think a theme in our conversation is just that we should all stay optimistic, realistic about what’s in front of us. The framers of the Constitution were very clear. I had the opportunity to be an impeachment manager [during then-President Donald Trump’s first impeachment in 2019]. Val Demings and I, first two African American impeachment managers in the history of the country, we understood that we needed to make our case to the Senate. We needed to make our case to the American people, probably most importantly, but then also speak to the history of it all in the moment. And so, quite naturally, we spent a little time looking back at the Federalist Papers or what emerged from the Constitutional Convention.
I think the most fascinating thing for me was when I realized that the word that the framers used the most during the Constitutional Convention wasn’t what I would have expected. My first guess probably would have been “democracy.” Second guess probably would have been “liberty.” Third and final guess would have been “freedom.” What was it? “Demagogue.” “Demagogue” [was] the word that the framers used the most. It was what they were most concerned about.
I think Hamilton characterized it best. He said that his biggest concern was that one day in this new country they were creating, a demagogue might somehow manage to be elected president and over a four-year period of time try to become a tyrant. This is a very fragile moment, and we have just got to meet the moment. But we should still be optimistic about our ability to do so, because every time we faced those moments in the past—this is a unique one, but there have been other existential and unique ones—just enough of the American people show up, speak up, and stand up in order to get through it and continue our march toward a more perfect union. And I’ve got to believe that’s exactly what will happen once again.
McKenzie: Well, I am hopeful and optimistic because you are where you are in a leadership position. And I want to thank you for your time, for your thoughtfulness, and for everything you are doing for our country. Thank you, Congressman.
Jeffries: Thank you. It’s great to be back.
This interview has been condensed and edited. Posted September 10, 2024